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Glove arm construction?
I've posted this several places, so as to get a good cross section of people's answers.
Okay, here's a good technical question for you pro puppet builders. (Or anyone else with a good solution!)
I'll try to explain the effect I want and hopefully someone will be able to tell me a good technique or construction tip to achieve it.
I'm working on a puppet that requires glove hands, so he'll be operated by two puppeteers... somewhat like Ernie on Sesame Street.
I want to avoid the Telly Monster/Cookie Monster/Beaker style of connecting the arms to the body and disguising the puppeteer's hands. Where their bodies are basically a big baggy bag and many folds of fabric disguise the "exit" of the puppeteer's performing arms.
The look I'm trying to achieve is much like that of "Popeye". My character has a gorilla body and I want his arms to be thinner at the top where they protrude from the shoulder and flare out at the end where they meet with the wrist.
The body and arms are a shaggy black fur, so matching the pattern on the fabric isn't a concern. But I am wondering how others may have reconciled the upper arm (stuffed tube) to the lower arm (long glove containing performer's arm/hand)? The connection point between the two and the fashion by which the performer's arm enters is of great importance to me.
And are there any construction techniques that function better/ look better on screen? I'm looking for maximum mobility with a minimum of conscious wrangling to keep the "exit tube" disguised or hidden from camera.
Thanks in advance for any ideas or tips!
Okay, here's a good technical question for you pro puppet builders. (Or anyone else with a good solution!)
I'll try to explain the effect I want and hopefully someone will be able to tell me a good technique or construction tip to achieve it.
I'm working on a puppet that requires glove hands, so he'll be operated by two puppeteers... somewhat like Ernie on Sesame Street.
I want to avoid the Telly Monster/Cookie Monster/Beaker style of connecting the arms to the body and disguising the puppeteer's hands. Where their bodies are basically a big baggy bag and many folds of fabric disguise the "exit" of the puppeteer's performing arms.
The look I'm trying to achieve is much like that of "Popeye". My character has a gorilla body and I want his arms to be thinner at the top where they protrude from the shoulder and flare out at the end where they meet with the wrist.
The body and arms are a shaggy black fur, so matching the pattern on the fabric isn't a concern. But I am wondering how others may have reconciled the upper arm (stuffed tube) to the lower arm (long glove containing performer's arm/hand)? The connection point between the two and the fashion by which the performer's arm enters is of great importance to me.
And are there any construction techniques that function better/ look better on screen? I'm looking for maximum mobility with a minimum of conscious wrangling to keep the "exit tube" disguised or hidden from camera.
Thanks in advance for any ideas or tips!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by overdrivenbrass on -
I've seen some where the puppets wrist is a t shape so there are two "sleeves" coming off at the wrist. then the glove is completely separate. But I would venture to guess you would know about this solution as well.
P.S. I had a lot of fun the shoot I got to attend. Michael Heagle had mentioned it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to do a more formal audition. Sorry I didn't get to meet you at that shoot.
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Permalink Reply by Sam Clemens on -
Hey Gordon!
Well I for one am excited by the premise of a new character with these specifications! The monster puppet Mooch I helped put together for crashpad had a similar design that was eventually scrapped for the 'baggy bag' approach, but we came up with an idea that had promise.
Basically we thought, because of his bulk and how Mooch is opperated (two puppeteers, with the lead performer behind him, not under him) we could use that position to our benifit and use the lead puppeteer's arm as the monsters arm from the elbow on, rather than the wrist. Think of the 'glove' extending all the way to the performers elbow so that there was a maximum of movement. The puppeteer would then be able to opperate the head and arm simultaniously with the monster more or less sitting on his lap. For mobility, we built a sling that supports the bulk of the puppet--but as stated--because the puppeteer is behindthe monster not under him we only had front and profile use, not 360. The secondary puppeteer was more traditionally beneith Mooch and was only able to opperate the basic 'glove'. On youtube, the ALA banned books promo shows Mooch in action with this idea.
So after testing we figured that worked for our purposes, but may be limiting in regards to what you need. I have seen some puppets that employ the same principle (elbow control vs. wrist) and to animate the puppets hand, they have built an articulated hand that just cables much further out thru the elbow and down to the performer. Problem is, the forearm almost alway has to arched upwards to hide the protruding cable or tube or whatever is used to house the mechanisms control.
Well, best of luck, if nothing else, I hope you find some insperation if not direction! Good luck, and as always, can't wait for more TVTV.
Cheers,
S
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Permalink Reply by FisticuffDC on -
Are you looking for something different than
this?
or this?
I'm sure you can modify this technique by making the shoulder connection slimmer and the arm longer so it gives a good gradual length for the wrist to flair more.
Let me know if I'm missing what your saying because one of the designs I'd like to work on in the next couple months sounds very much like this one.
Oh, also , check out photos of Big Big World. I know it's done all on green screen, but there might be some techniques you can adopt and adapt for your benefit.
Good luck. Let us know your progress.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon Smuder on -
Thanks for the links!
I was looking for more specifics about the application of the technique. Where the puppeteer's arm enters the puppet arm seems to be extremely important to the overall functionality and look on camera.
I was wondering if there was some sort of "practical wisdom" out there about this. Location of puppet elbows, entry hole, glove placement, etc. Or even some sort of codified instruction about the angle of the glove to the upper arm, etc.
Thanks for those reference shots, though! They provide good info!
FisticuffDC said:Are you looking for something different than
this?
or this?
I'm sure you can modify this technique by making the shoulder connection slimmer and the arm longer so it gives a good gradual length for the wrist to flair more.
Let me know if I'm missing what your saying because one of the designs I'd like to work on in the next couple months sounds very much like this one.
Oh, also , check out photos of Big Big World. I know it's done all on green screen, but there might be some techniques you can adopt and adapt for your benefit.
Good luck. Let us know your progress.
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Permalink Reply by biblebetty on -
Hi, I have a pattern (Human-Arm Shirt Pattern) that i used from one way street. When you go to the site click on puppetry, then on patterns/puppet building (it's only $8.00 dollars). I've used their pattern and its really good. I hope this helps
BibleBetty
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Permalink Reply by Gordon Smuder on
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Thanks BibleBetty!
-G
biblebetty said:Hi, I have a pattern (Human-Arm Shirt Pattern) that i used from one way street. When you go to the site click on puppetry, then on patterns/puppet building (it's only $8.00 dollars). I've used their pattern and its really good. I hope this helps
BibleBetty
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