Glue stick insanity!

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Permalink Reply by Creaturiste on December 31, 2008 at 11:27pm

Hi Westpuppet.

I used to experiment a lot with hot glue.

Your idea will work, if you use a heat gun after application to melt it again and make it smoother.
A pouring probably won't suffice for an even application. Maybe a dipping would work, but make sure the glue is very slowly heated, and as low a temperature as possible.
Hot glue is supposed to be non toxic, but from experience, I know it is TOXIC, when overheated.
Most glue guns I've tried do overhat the glue anyways, so you need to unplug when not in use for a few minutes.

You can re-heat the glue quickly with a heat gun, then sprinkle and/or rub some powdered pigments (or anything dry and lightfast, for durability). When cooled, rinse in water until no color runs off.
What remains will stay put, grabbed by the glue when it was hot.
HOt glue is really not a good surface to paint on, with any kind of paint, so this method can help color your hot glue work in a permanent fashion.


Never leave a hot glue prop in a sunny place, or near a spotlight, or wherever there might be heat eventually.


I once made a two-part mold with melted hot glue, which I used the glue gun to apply (a side at a time, Ieaving a gap between them. both halves were used as separate molds).
I wonder if melting the glue sticks in something else would prevent the air bubbles.
Also, my model was made of oil-based clay, which the heat probably softened too much.
I had a mess of clay left in the mold, but it worked for paper pulp.

I sometimes use hot glue as a finished product in itself. For instance, I made claws that look very sharp yet won't scratch anything, out of hot glue stick, which I carved, then inserted into cotton gloves.
Such props can be made smoother by subtle heating with a heat gun. A flame will almost always darken the product, so I avoid it now.


About hot glue molds: details that might interest some:

It was a mess, lots of air bubbles, and the inner surface was uneven.
Still, the molding compound I used was Celluclay, which allows fro touch ups.
I packed it in fully and tightly, froze the whole thing until completely hard, then popped the piece out and immediately put in the pre-heated oven (around 300F).
That baked the outer crust. Then I scooped the inside to remove most of the excess pulp. Then I packed that tight, so that there would be a thin but strong enough "thickcness". Popped back into oven, at 200F, until dry.
I trimmed the parts as best I could, then assembled them patiently, with more Celluclay. there was some warping, but it was manageable. since my parting line was in the middle of the face, the trimming caused a bit of a narrower nose and face than planned. I actually liked the result better!

To this day, this glove puppet is strong and in great condition, despite the fact that I once stepped on it by mistake (fell in the dark while stepping back into my tent, during a puppet festival). One ear broke right off, but it was insanely easy to put back on, with a dab of white glue. Once back home, I just applied some more celluclay around both ears (precaution), and repainted.

Conclusion: I don't like making molds of hot glue if it's directly on a product that will soften from the heat.
It was near impossible to keep a clean edge to the mold parts.


I hope this helps...

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Permalink Reply by Westpuppets on January 1, 2009 at 10:17pm

Thanks for the awesome reply. My first small scale experiment seemed to go nicely. I dipped a pencil and a piece of a puppet arm in melted glue and it covered thick and smooth. Guess its time to up the test with more glue and a bigger piece.
Great info about using the glue as a mold, I may have to try that also.
Creaturiste said:

Hi Westpuppet.

I used to experiment a lot with hot glue.

Your idea will work, if you use a heat gun after application to melt it again and make it smoother.
A pouring probably won't suffice for an even application. Maybe a dipping would work, but make sure the glue is very slowly heated, and as low a temperature as possible.
Hot glue is supposed to be non toxic, but from experience, I know it is TOXIC, when overheated.
Most glue guns I've tried do overhat the glue anyways, so you need to unplug when not in use for a few minutes.

You can re-heat the glue quickly with a heat gun, then sprinkle and/or rub some powdered pigments (or anything dry and lightfast, for durability). When cooled, rinse in water until no color runs off.
What remains will stay put, grabbed by the glue when it was hot.
HOt glue is really not a good surface to paint on, with any kind of paint, so this method can help color your hot glue work in a permanent fashion.


Never leave a hot glue prop in a sunny place, or near a spotlight, or wherever there might be heat eventually.


I once made a two-part mold with melted hot glue, which I used the glue gun to apply (a side at a time, Ieaving a gap between them. both halves were used as separate molds).
I wonder if melting the glue sticks in something else would prevent the air bubbles.
Also, my model was made of oil-based clay, which the heat probably softened too much.
I had a mess of clay left in the mold, but it worked for paper pulp.

I sometimes use hot glue as a finished product in itself. For instance, I made claws that look very sharp yet won't scratch anything, out of hot glue stick, which I carved, then inserted into cotton gloves.
Such props can be made smoother by subtle heating with a heat gun. A flame will almost always darken the product, so I avoid it now.


About hot glue molds: details that might interest some:

It was a mess, lots of air bubbles, and the inner surface was uneven.
Still, the molding compound I used was Celluclay, which allows fro touch ups.
I packed it in fully and tightly, froze the whole thing until completely hard, then popped the piece out and immediately put in the pre-heated oven (around 300F).
That baked the outer crust. Then I scooped the inside to remove most of the excess pulp. Then I packed that tight, so that there would be a thin but strong enough "thickcness". Popped back into oven, at 200F, until dry.
I trimmed the parts as best I could, then assembled them patiently, with more Celluclay. there was some warping, but it was manageable. since my parting line was in the middle of the face, the trimming caused a bit of a narrower nose and face than planned. I actually liked the result better!

To this day, this glove puppet is strong and in great condition, despite the fact that I once stepped on it by mistake (fell in the dark while stepping back into my tent, during a puppet festival). One ear broke right off, but it was insanely easy to put back on, with a dab of white glue. Once back home, I just applied some more celluclay around both ears (precaution), and repainted.

Conclusion: I don't like making molds of hot glue if it's directly on a product that will soften from the heat.
It was near impossible to keep a clean edge to the mold parts.


I hope this helps...

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Permalink Reply by Creaturiste on January 1, 2009 at 10:35pm

What did you use for melting the glue?

I never tried it for hot glue, but usually, when melting something that is dangerous when overheated, people use a double boiler. In this case, the hot glue would ruin a real double boiler, so suspending a tin can within a large saucepan containing boiling water would do the trick. It works for wax, anyways.

Just make sure there is plenty of water space between the can and the bottom of the pan.
If it doesn't work, it will be because the heat is not enough. At least you won't have risked anything.
Overheated hot glue is irritant to the throat, and can cause headaches and stomach aches.
I know from experience.

Have you used the colored hot glue sticks? They can add more variety to the effects you get.
Marblizing various colors might even be possible.

This is a bit off-topic, but here's a trick that may change the way you work.
Keep a large tub of water close by when you work with hot glue guns.
I use it for two things. One: when you drop hot glue on your skin, immediately dipping in water (and staying for a minute) will stop the burn for good, or from even happening, if you're quick enough. Do not Pull the cooled glue off your skin if it resists. Your skin might pull off. Happened to me a few times. The exposed skin is very sensitive to touch and temperatures. Takes a week or two to reform skin.

Tip Two: How to fakely graft hair onto a creature. Make a strand of hair even at the root, by cutting. Apply glue to your surface. Press hair material on glued area, in the required position and angle, using two fingers dipped in water, tapping quickly. repeat as needed. Do no leave fingers on the hot glue for more than two seconds.
Instant cooling, without the burning. This si great for attaching hair that look like they have been growing instead of just glued on. The glue pressed down this way is much less glossy. Takes a bit of practice to make it invisible. This one was called "the hot fingers technique" by a maskmaker I took a workshop from. His name is Francis Dubois Torres.


Have fun.

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Permalink Reply by Westpuppets on January 2, 2009 at 12:37pm

Great info thanks! I was just going to put the glue in a can and on an oven burner. I work outside so fumes are not a problem. Does this stuff explode if it gets too hot?! It got me thinking when you said about the hot gun smoothing it out. I took this old head from DAS material (hated it since it was not smooth and not much detail) covered it with glue gun rouphely and then smoothed with heat gun. Bubbled in some spots I overheated but overall seems much smoother. (and probably alot stronger and weather proof.)

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Permalink Reply by Creaturiste on January 2, 2009 at 3:46pm

Hot glue, if applied evenly and completely, would probably be completely water proof.
But a single area or fissure where moisture could get in, would not let it out at all.
So, do what you will, but avoid submersion in liquids. Rain would be ok if it doesn't sit on or in the object for long periods.

Das Pronto can be re-smoothed if you rub it with water and a finger, or a tool, if I remember properly. It,s been ages since I used that stuff. It was too much hassle trying to make detailed creatures of this mushy stuff, which dries slowly and has remains dust producing unless sealed.

I can confirm the water-smoothing property for Celluclay, which is a real superior air-dry modeling compound.
It becomes great when it is mixed in hot water (not the hot water from the tap(full of bad bacterias), you should use a boiler to heat the cold tap water).

But I digress.

Did you know veils of spiderwebs in movies are very often achieved with hot glue?
They install an airbrush into a hot glue gun, to blast pressurized air at the melted glue, to propulse it instantly into super fine filaments. A Spiderweb gun!
Those guns can be purchased already made.
Once, I tried to just blast an airbrush close to the nozzle on my glue gun. It was difficult to control, and slightly lacking in pressure. If I were to need a lot of cobweb effects, I get a premade cobweb gun.

I once tested a way to draw a net or some patterns with hot glue, which could then stand alone.
Two ways worked, although I can't be sure of exactly how the second one worked, as it's been a while. Better test it.

-Drawing the pattern on a sheet of silicone mat (sold as a mat for hot glue guns). Peels right off when cool
-a super thin veil of water at the bottom of a large, flat-bottomed container. Draw the pattern over that. The water cools it quick. The water should not be high enough to cover the hot glue pattern.

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Permalink Reply by Westpuppets on January 3, 2009 at 8:40pm

Ok the conclusions of my experiment is mixed. When the shape is basic it smoothes well enough. If the shape gets more complecated it tends to fill in all the detail and is harder to get smooth. Mostly does not seem the work it takes if it is not that much smoother then paper mache. Guess super sculply is the still the best so far for me. It is a good trick to keep in my bag o tricks though! ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Creaturiste on January 3, 2009 at 9:32pm

If your goal was super smoothness in the first place, the best approaches would be far different than using an exotic substance like hot glue. Rethinking basic methods can be much more successful.

I spent years studying varying forms of paper mache, and experimenting in order to get ever better results. At this point, I am able to reach a level of smoothness that is the same as unglazed ceramic or terra cotta. I achive this by using much smaller pieces of a thin, smooth yet strong paper (coffee filters), the proper adhesive (white glue or methyl cellulose, depending), rubbing each layer with a hard tool before it fully dries, sanding a little bit when the layer is dry. Starting from a smooth model or form is a good facilitator.
Working paper mache strips from negative molds yields even smoother results.

When super smoothness is required, I can either use a thinner paper as a final layer, such as brown paper towels, or add a cream, made of joint compound and white glue, tinted with pigments or acrylic paint.
The cream is applied with a smooth brush for smooth applications, or with any other tool for textural applications.

Both approaches can be combined, sanded, painted, and repeated.
The cream approach I call Monster Bone, because the version I use is a modification of the recipe called monster mud, which is used by "haunters" as an all-purpose texture cream for Halloween props.
The original Monster Mud Recipe calls for joint compound and house paint (latex). I thought this mix would be too fragile for my uses, so I replaced the latex paint (which is just a cheap acrylic base) with glue, which increases adherance and flex.

Most of the work in my portfolio is or contains paper mache. I find it to be the most durable and most versatile category of techniques for puppetmaking. It can be used as much for structure as for texture, and can be made much more lightweight than most other strong materials. My paper mache is stronger than fiberglass (against impact), except for water resistance, which is not usually a requirement for performance puppets that don't need to perform with water.

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Permalink Reply by Westpuppets on January 4, 2009 at 2:19pm

Awesome. I used monster mud years ago with halloween props and never thought of it. I can't wait to try it with glue instead. Genius. I have always done solid wood heads with sculpy face but I can never make moving eyes and mouths until I learn the make a hollow head. Thats why I am trying to learn to smooth paper mache. Thanks dude! ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Hobey1 on January 21, 2009 at 7:24am

John Farrell of Figures of Speech makes hands out of hot glue sticks. He does use a torch but he doesn't overheat and burn the sticks. He first creates the fingers one stick at a time shaping them and then he leaves some stick below each finger to fuse together into the hand. They are flexible and sturdy.

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Permalink Reply by Creaturiste on January 21, 2009 at 10:20am

Man, I wish I could see how he does this!
Thanks Hobey, for the tip!

Last week, I made smooth teeth out of hot glue sticks.
I just carved the end of a stick with a craft knife, then rotated the stick above my heat gun, removed while keeping the rotation, then quickly dipped in cold water. Very smooth teeth, no tool mark!
The cooled teeth can be cut off the stick, and glued with more hot glue. Or you can leave some extra stick material to serve as root to implant into your structure.

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